This interview was conducted in late 2009 and published in April 2010 in the first issue of The Heretic's Torch magazine. Due to the issue's limitation, I have decided to share the interview for the perusal of all through this blog. The information is, of course, outdated, in that it is over a year old. Since this interview, Agalloch has released their fourth full-length album, Marrow of the Spirit, through Profound Lore Records. Please keep this in mind while reading and enjoy for what it is.
Agalloch's first output was 1997's From Which of This Oak demo tape. The sound on this cassette is fairly significantly removed from what would be heard two years later on the Pale Folklore album in certain aspects. It is certainly more primitively composed, and more conventional as well. To what can this shifting in sound be attributed? Of course the obvious line between the two recordings can be drawn, but it's also not impossible to mistake them for being recorded by two different bands.
Well while writing the demo stuff, we were primarily influenced by the mid-nineties Black/Death Metal, stuff like Bathory, of course Ulver, and various Darkwave/Doom artists. I think the demo actually has more in common with bands like old Bethlehem and Katatonia, both in production and concept. Once we started putting together Pale Folklore, the aesthetics moved more towards a focus on the folk/gothic influences...bands like Fields of the Nephilim, Death in June, etc. You can really hear this on “Of Stone, Wind, and Pillor" and "Hallways of Enchanted Ebony" which were songs written during this transitional period. From the start, we never wanted to be pigeon-holed into a single style or aesthetic. The only rule was that the music was dark, sincere, and visual. Every album we make is still based on that foundation.
So would you say then that you don't necessarily identify Agalloch as a metal band insofar as that means that you're not bound by genre constrictions? Recordings like The White EP obviously fall outside the realms of metal, but the full-length outputs generally are grounded principally in metal, and I would assume that there are no plans to change that.
That's right and I think we have made this quite clear over the years. At its core, Agalloch is a Dark Metal band. The full lengths will always stem from the Dark Metal foundation and will utilize some of the experimentation we focus on with the minor releases. Being restricted by a single genre is not interesting to us and so we will always continue to experiment and create material that does not fall within such confines, such as what we did with our recent EPs. I guess to put it bluntly, we will do whatever the fuck we want. Isn't that what art is about?
You certainly have not stuck to one genre over the years, let alone one subgenre. It is quite obvious that your compositions are enlightened by various forms of music, such as neofolk and ambient, genres that really seem to add a further layer of depth to the style of metal that Agalloch is known for. Aside from the aforementioned Death in June and Fields of the Nephilim, and the obvious Sol Invictus, what other artists, and genres, have come to shape Agalloch's sound, and in what ways?
I guess it depends on what period. Our last album had shades of Sigur Rós, My Bloody Valentine, Mogwai, Antarctica, Ennio Morricone, Landberk, Anekdoten, and so on...all of which we were heavily into between 2003 - 2005. I am still a fan of all of these artists and others like them. In fact, the Nordic Prog band THULE changed my life in a similar way that Bergtatt did 15 years ago! I was also watching a lot of depressive Russian films during that period...Tarkovsky, Paradjanov, Sokurov, etc. These influences added to the "colors", mood, and textures of our last album. Our next record will consciously have less musical influences and a more natural, impulsive approach. In some cases I've literally told Don; "look at this painting" or "watch this film" and tell him to write riffs naturally based on his reaction to them. I have been doing the same. The results have been incredible!
Would it be accurate to suggest that taking influences from the artworld outside of music, particularly film, produces unique results within the structure of your music which perhaps would not have otherwise been found? When listening to your music, for example, I sometimes am struck by a somewhat 'cinematic' quality to the way that certain ideas are arranged.
Absolutely. I always try to create a visual soundtrack with the albums. When we record, I speak directly in colors, textures, images, and plots rather than in keys or modes or whatever. I guess it sounds stupid to say to an engineer; "can you make this sound more blue" or "I need a guitar sound that is like broken stones in icy water". I've always approached music this way both in composing it or when listening to other artists.
Although you say that you always approach music in ways perhaps related to something outside of the music, somewhat visually based, you also said that the next record will have "less musical influences." Have you worked enough on the next release to really determine how this will shape the new material? Will it deviate from past works in any substantial way? When do you expect that the next Agalloch album will see the light of day?
The songs are 75-80% complete and I have a very good idea how the next album will flow, feel, and come together as a package. We have been experimenting with some vintage amps, analog synths, and exotic instruments in hopes to find some unique tones as well. Once we are at a phase where the songs are completely written, we are going to take a lot of time in the preproduction phase....demoing, re-demoing, and several rehearsals. I hope we will at least record the drums by the end of this year but the album is going to be a long process. We plan to use three separate studios and a couple engineers which is already a different approach from our other albums.
At the end of the day Agalloch is a glorified hobby. We work on it when we have the inspiration to do so. Time doesn't really matter to us as long as the final result happens naturally and with a focus on quality. So if it takes four years to make a solid record that we can be proud of then so be it. With this album we also don't have a fucking label breathing down our backs constantly wanting updates and other shit so that is an added bonus. Maybe this recording session won't be as much of a nightmare as last time.
What kind of nightmares have you had to deal with throughout the various recording sessions for Agalloch? I suppose this means that The End Records is out of the picture for the next album. Do you have any idea who you would like to work with in the future? Perhaps Profound Lore?
Every possible nightmare scenario you can imagine happened. I think I wanted to quit the band four times during that session. There was even a three day period where we thought we would have to re-record the entire album! I was a stressball for, like, 3 fucking months straight. After it was finally mixed and mastered and over with, the first thing Andreas told me upon listening was that it didn't sound as loud as the Dissection album (Reinkaos)! What the fuck?? He wanted it remastered, which of course we refused to do. Then when the album was released, the booklet was messed up which of course TER blamed me for. Had they opened the PDF file of my proof sheet they would've been able to cross reference with the printing place to make sure everything was right. But they didn't and there was a fuck up which resulted in the pages being assembled out of order. I think the first 2000 copies were faulty. This and the fact that they had become very, very pushy about us touring and "taking the next step" to be more commercial. Look at that label nowadays...a total hipster mess. We want nothing to do with them other than the royalty checks which at least they are still very good about paying us.
For the future...we have talked to a few mid-size indie labels including Profound Lore but nothing is signed as of yet. It is not really a big priority for us at the moment. We plan to fund the next album (and every album thereafter) ourselves and then we will seriously talk to a couple of labels about licensing it. It is very important that we own our work and do things our way at our pace. I think the result will be a much better, stronger band. The pressures from TER nearly caused Agalloch to split up in 2007 so we do not wish to experience that again. We have basically told several big labels to fuck off because their supposed "deal we couldn't refuse" was worse than our deal with TER! Very typical. These big labels don't seem to understand the fact that they are not as important as they were years/decades ago. They are in fact a dying breed.
It certainly seems increasingly more and more well-advised for bands that can afford to do so to fund their own recordings these days; for example, Celtic Frost's funding of their several years in the making return with the Monotheist album. Would you say that the band's music itself has been negatively impacted in any way by label relations? Also, given your past experiences with labels and the pressures that they put on bands to produce, are you considering simply working on case-by-case one album deals with labels in the future? I would imagine that that would eliminate most of the pressure, which I think is especially important for a band such as yours that takes a longer period of time to craft an album than some random retro thrash metal band. Another option would be to release it yourself, but that obviously comes with its own host of issues.
I don't think our music has been negatively affected by TER other than maybe by the association with their latest hipster image. I always thought the label lacked any sort of artistic identity or character that I appreciated with labels like Eibon, Prophecy, Misanthropy, etc. TER to me was a lot of poorly designed generic advertisements, low quality printing (in the early days) and dumb gimmicks. I was never 100% comfortable with the label but, to be fair, they did help put us on the map and opened some interesting doors for us...which I think we also did the same for them as we gained popularity. It was a give and take relationship for sure. Maybe our productions were compromised a bit by their very low budgets which we always went way over anyway. I probably sound more bitter than I am about TER...it was a learning experience and I guess I should value that if nothing else.
I think for the future we are going to take things one album at a time. If the experience with the label is a rewarding one, we will likely continue the relationship. We just refuse to sign, for example, a ridiculous 5+ album contract or anything stupid like that. I can't believe bands still fall for that rubbish!
I would now like you to speak to the following topic; how do you approach songwriting for Agalloch? Is it a labor of meticulous crafting and molding and building up every detail, or is it more of a matter of various elements falling into place? Do you find it necessary to know exactly what you are going to record and how it is going to be recorded in advance of the beginning of recording sessions for an album, or do you at times rely on the actual recording experience to dictate last-minute revisions?
You know, it's interesting how we approached things in such a backwards way in the past. For the first 3 albums, we demoed stuff on a 4 track and used these really terrible demos and references to write the songs. The result always was a mess in the studio but we somehow made it work out through our desire to create something really special. In some ways it was cool to be able to see these crappy demo versions turn into something amazing...but it wasted so much time in the studio. Now, and onward, we are writing and demoing on computers and plan to make the most complete demos possible before going into the studio to record the real thing. For a band in our situation (members living all over the place) it is the best way to communicate and get on the same page with each other's ideas. Last minute revisions will always be there of course but I will never waste time in the studio completely rewriting songs like we did in the past.
As for the songwriting process, it is more or less what you said...there's a lot of meticulous crafting but also a lot of spontaneity as well. A lot of the time I'll go camping or something and sit in the woods with an acoustic guitar and just write tons of riffs. Then I'll come home and transpose the majority of the riffs on the electric guitar, work them into a structure, and then send this structure of riffs to Don for him to work on. On and on, bit by bit. I am someone who really needs to get away from normal life distractions in order to write music. Often times I'll go weeks without even touching a guitar simply due to other shit going on and lack of time and inspiration. I am always thinking about the project, however. Always. I often will be at work and will stop to write down an idea for a layout or a lyric or a title or whatever. I'm always thinking about it even if I'm not physically working behind a guitar or computer screen...it's always on my mind.
It's always interesting to me to read about how and where bands acquire their inspiration for writing, and, quite frankly, the more remote or fantastical the source of inspiration, the more interesting it is. It's not very interesting, for example, to learn that one of your favorite songs was inspired by the bassist seeing a gigantic ant in his basement or something similarly banal. It is of course unsurprising that the woods plays an important part in the formation of your music, and I'm sure that you've spoken about it throughout countless interviews at this point. Have you always had a certain fascination, an admiration with forests and nature? Tell us, if you will, a bit about your relationship with the natural and how it resulted in Agalloch.
Growing up, I had always lived in small mountain towns and such. In fact I didn't actually live in a major metropolis (Seattle) until I was 18. So I have always been around a lot of forested, rather isolated environments and so it is just a seed that was planted early in life, you know? I think as a result I am attracted to "old world" styles...things made out of wood, stone, the earth...with a certain honesty and character...and I wanted to bring those elements alive with Agalloch. Of course we have many more influences than just forests and nature, as I've said already.
You have played live seemingly only sporadically over the years with Agalloch, without ever going on any particularly extended tours that I'm aware of. Is this logistically not an option, or is it more an unwillingness to do so? Would you like to go on an extended tour if granted the opportunity?
The most extensive tour we've done was this year in Europe with Dornenreich. 10 dates in a row. I think that will continue to be the most we'll be able to leave for considering the busy lives of each of Agalloch's members. We would like to do more but I'm not sure if it will ever be possible. It is also much more realistic for us to do two or three 10 date tours in a year than one 30 date tour and I think it is more enjoyable that way anyway. Less chance of burn-out on the road. We have turned down several...SEVERAL offers to go on extensive tours, mind you. If it were possible, we would have traveled the entire world a couple times by now. We do enjoy only picking the very best options out of the several offers we get. That tour with Dornenreich was an absolutely incredible experience for us.
You were, up until recent years, the man behind the drums for Agalloch's recordings. Why did you decide to enlist the services of a drummer at that time?
I needed less responsibilities in the band! Up until Ashes Against the Grain, I played guitars, drums, vocals, 90% of the songwriting, all of the lyrics, the layouts, the photography, the press stuff....!!! It came to a point where I no longer had time for all of these responsibilities so I spread them out. We got a drummer. We met and enlisted a brilliant photographer. The songwriting is now more spread out within the band...so now I can just concentrate on my guitar parts, my vocals and lyrics, and the design/art direction of our releases. It's much better this way because I think more people can bring ideas and visions to the table that I simply wouldn't have on my own, especially with so much else on my mind.
You first brought in Chris Greene to play drums, who performed on Ashes Against the Grain. Now the drummer is Aesop Dekker, notably from Ludicra. Why did things not work out with Chris? How did Dekker come into the picture, and how is he working out in the band? Do you feel that his drumming style at all influences how you choose to write the new material?
When we decided to play live back in 2002, we didn't know anyone who played drums and could get along with a band like Agalloch. We have always been outsiders in the local scene, especially back then when most people didn't even know we were a local band! The music scene here consisted of mainly crusty punk bands, brutal death/gore metal, war metal, and indie rock. Agalloch was the only atmospheric dark metal band in the Portland area at the time. So every band we knew had a constant revolving door of musicians who were too flakey or too uptight to deal with. Long story short, we found Chris who worked well for awhile. His style suited the more midpaced material, which we focused on for live shows at the time. He also worked out pretty well for the Ashes Against the Grain album and its more stripped down approach. But as time went on, we felt that we were developing more and more as a live band but he wasn't as a drummer. It came to a head on that terrible European tour we did in 2006 and shortly afterwards we parted ways with him. He frankly wasn't surprised by our decision.
Aesop from Ludicra had been a friend of ours since 2003 and was quite interested in the vacant drummer position. So we organized a rehearsal with him and it was brilliant. He played most of my drum parts (I recorded on the first two albums) perfectly and he also added a personal touch to them as well. It was an easy choice.
A new Agalloch live DVD was released back in October called The Silence of Forgotten Landscapes. From what I've read, this was a rather last minute thing that was sprung onto the band by the gig promoter and the record label. Can you talk about the circumstances surrounding the filming of this DVD?
Yeah it was a really hectic situation for many reasons, some of which we did not foresee. Firstly, I got sick on the flight to Europe. I had left a week early to see some friends in Germany and to borrow some equipment for the shows. During that week my illness got worse and worse. I dealt with it ok at the Ragnarök fest, which was another show riddled with issues. But between Germany and Belgium I had developed "walking pneumonia". So I had to play a show, a pro-filmed one, while in a state that felt like a bad hangover complete with hallucinations and sing with a throat that felt like it was on fire. We thought about canceling but instead I decided to take it like a man and do it. It's kind of funny looking at the footage because I was totally trying to give the impression that nothing was wrong. Between singing lines I would hide my coughing and agony behind my hair, heh. Then on top of that, we had technical issues with one of the amps and the sound on stage was really, really messy. It is really unfortunate that this was the DVD show because now it just reminds me of those conditions.
I will say that after a few days in Belgium, I went back to Germany and visited the Externsteine. My friends and I stayed there late into the night and built a fire with traveling flutists and percussionists who we met that day. The energy in the stones of the Externsteine is said to have healing properties so I laid down in the sepulchre, in total darkness, while the sounds of flutes and drums resonated through the stones and into my body. I spent about 30 minutes in the sepulchre...it was one of the most amazing spiritual experiences I have ever had. The following day, my horrible illness was gone.
Ultimately, would you say that you're content with this as an Agalloch product, even given the behind the scenes issues surrounding it?
I think we took a bad situation and made something worthwhile out of it. I think the monochrome, "1930's silent film" aesthetic worked really well. Pretty much every problem you can imagine occurred even after the show. The color footage was completely unusable, the transfers were given to us in a format that wouldn't work with our editor's program, resulting in massive syncing problems - some of which you can see on the DVD. Of course there were a couple small performance mistakes that had to be fixed and some horrible bleed-through on the vocal mic that had to be corrected. Despite all of this, however, we aimed to maintain as much of an untouched live recording that we could. I don't believe in going into the studio and re-recording everything like some bands do. What you hear on the DVD is 95% true to the performance that night. We even re-amped the guitars with the same channel sounds from our floor effects units. We wanted the recording to sound good - but still be a real live recording. That was very important to us.
I think if we ever do something like this again, we will organize everything ourselves. We'll hire a crew that we know and trust and film it either at a local venue or in a city within driving distance so we can use our own backline gear and all of our stage stuff that we couldn't easily bring on a plane to Europe (large tree stumps, deer skulls, etc). We didn't even get the fog machines that we requested for the Belgium show. Ridiculous!
Do you have any interest in the idea of "the metal scene," so to speak? I know that you say that Agalloch is largely an outsider in the local scene, but internationally, I like to evaluate the state of metal as an artform based on the quality of the output of visionary artists and of innovation and creativity in advancing the musical landscape of the metal genre. Do you take any particular interest in the broader spectrum of what metal bands of today have to offer and its respective health? If so, would you care to share any observations you may have on the matter? I am mostly interested in whether or not you find yourself being influenced by any contemporary artists in your songwriting.
Hmmm...well yeah I can certainly say that the "scene" needs an injection of artistic minded groups for sure. It seems to go through a period of stagnation until a few really visionary artists pop into the fray and turn it around for a few years. This happened with the second wave of black metal, and first wave of suicidal dark metal in the 90s. Then again with the uprising of these so-called post metal and horrible jolly folk metal trends that happened in this decade. We try to follow our own path no matter what is going on in the scene. Sometimes our path unintentionally crosses with others and we will get sucked in with "post metal" or "folk metal" or whatever which can be annoying for us.
There are a few bands in the current waves that interest me like Fauna, Velnias, Gris, Lifelover, Alcest, Peste Noire, Aluk Todolo, Kroda, Fen, Altar Of Plagues, Vindensång, Paysage d'Hiver, Wedard, Cold World, Krallice...to name a few. The local "Cascadian" scene already has the potential to be really great. I really enjoy bands with a certain special charisma that appeals to me. This is why I am such a huge fan of Master's Hammer, (early) Bethlehem, Vlad Tepes, In The Woods, Bathory, and Ulver....bands that brought something more interesting to the table with their sound, image, and attitude. As for being influenced by contemporaries...yes I suppose there is a small degree of influence that is unavoidable, however, the biggest mistake an artist can make is to be led by their contemporaries. We must continue our own path no matter what is going on around us.
How do you know when to call it a day, musically speaking, or do you have any idea? Or is there really any need to foresee an end? You say that you view Agalloch as essentially a glorified hobby, so is this project something that you intend to have with you with an idea of no end in sight, or do you have some idea that you will eventually like to simply move on to something else, whether it is musically or not? And on that note, have you ever considered expanding your artistic portfolio beyond the musical and the other artforms that directly tie in to your musical work? For example, have you ever considered publishing a book of photography, or a writing of some kind?
The time to call it a day is when you have nothing more left to offer. Honestly, after we released The White EP I had serious doubts that the band would exist for much longer. I was exhausted of ideas and quite content with our accomplishments. That is a terminal mixture. But as always, new ideas started to take root and so we will continue for another album or two at least. Now that we are independent from a label's expectations, the band is a lot more enjoyable and the inspiration continues to flow (albeit at a snail's pace).
In the end, I think I will always do something with music, whether playing in a band and releasing albums or just making music for myself. I cannot foresee a total nadir of that expression for me personally. I would really like to try my hand at film making and perhaps some other more "old world" crafts like woodworking, etching, cobb architecture, and continuing my wine craft.
Is there anything that has not been addressed in this interview that you would like to discuss? Perhaps something interesting or noteworthy surrounding the band or yourself that doesn't get brought up in interviews?
Eh...I can't think of anything. You would be surprised by the wide array of oddities we have been asked in interviews. I will say that I am EXTREMELY excited about the new Master's Hammer album. I am equally NOT excited about almost every other band reformations/reunions out there. That seems to be the latest trend...crappy thrash bands from 20 years ago coming back to life to record another piece of unnecessary drivel for stupid teenagers who didn't get to experience the drivel the first time. Yay...way to push the boundaries of metal. At least in the case of Master's Hammer, they were already a very interesting band when they split so I have no doubt that those eccentric Czechs will create something unique and special once again.
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